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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;m not Attacking the Agile Manifesto Principles, I&#8217;m begging for Improvement</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/</link>
	<description>Naresh Jain&#039;s Random Thoughts on Software Development and Adventure Sports</description>
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		<title>By: Rahul Agrawal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15400</link>
		<dc:creator>Rahul Agrawal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 23:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15400</guid>
		<description>One message that I see surfacing again and again in various forms is : &quot;We need to shift our focus more on &quot;what we develop&quot; and how it adds value to the business. Everything else is secondary.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Imagine if I blindly follow the best practice , process or whatever metaphor we call it, but if that does not add value to the business, then either my understanding/implementation of that metaphor is not correct or the metaphor needs to be re looked. It is also possible that both cases are true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One message that I see surfacing again and again in various forms is : &#8220;We need to shift our focus more on &#8220;what we develop&#8221; and how it adds value to the business. Everything else is secondary.&#8221;</p>
<p>Imagine if I blindly follow the best practice , process or whatever metaphor we call it, but if that does not add value to the business, then either my understanding/implementation of that metaphor is not correct or the metaphor needs to be re looked. It is also possible that both cases are true.</p>
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		<title>By: Rahul Agrawal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15368</link>
		<dc:creator>Rahul Agrawal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 16:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15368</guid>
		<description>One message that I see surfacing again and again in various forms is : &quot;We need to shift our focus more on &quot;what we develop&quot; and how it adds value to the business. Everything else is secondary.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Imagine if I blindly follow the best practice , process or whatever metaphor we call it, but if that does not add value to the business, then either my understanding/implementation of that metaphor is not correct or the metaphor needs to be re looked. It is also possible that both cases are true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One message that I see surfacing again and again in various forms is : &#8220;We need to shift our focus more on &#8220;what we develop&#8221; and how it adds value to the business. Everything else is secondary.&#8221;</p>
<p>Imagine if I blindly follow the best practice , process or whatever metaphor we call it, but if that does not add value to the business, then either my understanding/implementation of that metaphor is not correct or the metaphor needs to be re looked. It is also possible that both cases are true.</p>
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		<title>By: mikesutton</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15338</link>
		<dc:creator>mikesutton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15338</guid>
		<description>Personally I think this blog is ahead of its time. I cannot expect less from Naresh.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Let us first try and achieve the principles as widely as possible before deciding they need to change.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Fundamentally the words on the manifesto communicate an intent, a mindset and an approach - those who simply act on the literal words are already lost - and no amount of &#039;improvement&#039; will do.  Those who really get that agile is about collaboration, changing the entire system (of which software delivery is only a part) do not need new words to understand the context.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We should inspect and adapt - I totally agree. The manifesto words didn&#039;t start off perfectly and do need updating (with all due respect to the crafters - its not entirely a timeless piece). But we are not there yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally I think this blog is ahead of its time. I cannot expect less from Naresh.</p>
<p>But!</p>
<p>Let us first try and achieve the principles as widely as possible before deciding they need to change.</p>
<p>Fundamentally the words on the manifesto communicate an intent, a mindset and an approach &#8211; those who simply act on the literal words are already lost &#8211; and no amount of &#39;improvement&#39; will do.  Those who really get that agile is about collaboration, changing the entire system (of which software delivery is only a part) do not need new words to understand the context.</p>
<p>We should inspect and adapt &#8211; I totally agree. The manifesto words didn&#39;t start off perfectly and do need updating (with all due respect to the crafters &#8211; its not entirely a timeless piece). But we are not there yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Ilja Preuß</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15337</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilja Preuß</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15337</guid>
		<description>Hi Naresh, a lot of good points. I&#039;m not convinced that therefore the Manifesto needs to be changed, though - I&#039;m very much with Tobias on this.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;When something important happens, why wait? Why not tackle things as and when they occur. Even if we don’t resolve the issue, it’s worth at least a quick discussion.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t think retrospectives where ever meant to replace just-in-time problem solving. Instead, they provide a check point, an opportunity to share stories and discover things that we simply don&#039;t see if we don&#039;t stop for a moment and take the time to take a deeper look. Going to a mechanic when you hear a strange voice while driving your car doesn&#039;t replace the regular maintenance check, and vice versa. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://iljapreuss.blogspot.com/2009/09/scheduled-retrospectives-are-good.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://iljapreuss.blogspot.com/2009/09/schedule...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Naresh, a lot of good points. I&#39;m not convinced that therefore the Manifesto needs to be changed, though &#8211; I&#39;m very much with Tobias on this.</p>
<p>&#8220;When something important happens, why wait? Why not tackle things as and when they occur. Even if we don’t resolve the issue, it’s worth at least a quick discussion.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#39;t think retrospectives where ever meant to replace just-in-time problem solving. Instead, they provide a check point, an opportunity to share stories and discover things that we simply don&#39;t see if we don&#39;t stop for a moment and take the time to take a deeper look. Going to a mechanic when you hear a strange voice while driving your car doesn&#39;t replace the regular maintenance check, and vice versa. See <a href="http://iljapreuss.blogspot.com/2009/09/scheduled-retrospectives-are-good.html" rel="nofollow">http://iljapreuss.blogspot.com/2009/09/schedule&#8230;</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ilja Preuß</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15336</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilja Preuß</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15336</guid>
		<description>Or maybe Agile isn&#039;t a step defined by the Manifesto. Perhaps it&#039;s a movement that was initiated by the Manifesto; or a community that was seeded by the Manifesto, and that continues to reshape the world of software development, and itself, guided by common values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or maybe Agile isn&#39;t a step defined by the Manifesto. Perhaps it&#39;s a movement that was initiated by the Manifesto; or a community that was seeded by the Manifesto, and that continues to reshape the world of software development, and itself, guided by common values.</p>
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		<title>By: tobiasmayer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15333</link>
		<dc:creator>tobiasmayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15333</guid>
		<description>Naresh, you make some great points, but the fact you feel the need to make them concerns me. Are there really people who are taking these principles word-for-word literally as if they have been carved on tablets of stone and handed down from Mount Sinai? I sincerely hope not. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Surely it is the spirit of these ideas we care about.  I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve paid close attention to these principles since first reading them in 2003.  But I got it: work differently, remove ego, listen, collaborate, emerge solutions, keep it simple, have fun, seek to improve, stop doing stupid stuff.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Agile Manifesto &amp; Principles were a wake-up call to our industry. I wish people would just leave this historic document alone and treat it exactly for what it is: historical.  We don&#039;t need an encoded set of rules to tell us what to do, we need concepts, ideas, vision. We need continuous dialog.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Please let&#039;s not make the Agile Principles a hand-off document!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naresh, you make some great points, but the fact you feel the need to make them concerns me. Are there really people who are taking these principles word-for-word literally as if they have been carved on tablets of stone and handed down from Mount Sinai? I sincerely hope not. </p>
<p>Surely it is the spirit of these ideas we care about.  I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve paid close attention to these principles since first reading them in 2003.  But I got it: work differently, remove ego, listen, collaborate, emerge solutions, keep it simple, have fun, seek to improve, stop doing stupid stuff.</p>
<p>The Agile Manifesto &#038; Principles were a wake-up call to our industry. I wish people would just leave this historic document alone and treat it exactly for what it is: historical.  We don&#39;t need an encoded set of rules to tell us what to do, we need concepts, ideas, vision. We need continuous dialog.</p>
<p>Please let&#39;s not make the Agile Principles a hand-off document!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Nicolette</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15332</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Nicolette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15332</guid>
		<description>I agree that the time has come to revisit the principles. Can we dig even deeper than the suggestions you make here? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For instance, consider &quot;satisfy the customer.&quot; Can we question the implied segregation between a &quot;customer&quot; and a &quot;supplier?&quot; Maybe what we really need is to re-think organizational structure. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Consider &quot;changing requirements.&quot; The Manifesto already dances around the edges of the question of whether anyone can &quot;know&quot; what is required in advance. Can we question this more deeply? There are other ideas out there that may serve the purpose better, depending on context. A couple of examples: Capabilities-Based Planning and Real Options. This begs the questions of managing an &quot;IT portfolio&quot;, budgeting IT activities on a cost-center basis, and running discrete &quot;projects.&quot; IMO there are many opportunities for improvement in this general area. The notion of &quot;requirements&quot; contains unstated assumptions. Let&#039;s identify and question those assumptions.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Consider &quot;the team reflects&quot; (etc.). There are practical tools to help teams and organizations with this practice that were not mentioned in the Manifesto, such as the Five Focusing Steps of the Theory of Constraints. Such tools offer concrete methods to implement this principle, taking it out of the realm of magic or blind luck.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When you say &quot;this is indisuputable,&quot; is it really? What if through further technological advances it becomes cost-effective to develop five or six possible solutions to a problem and then throw away all but one of them? Maximizing the amount of work not done would lead us to choose the solution before building the candidates. That&#039;s certainly realistic as of today...what what might tomorrow bring?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Since we&#039;re questioning things, why should we assume tweaking the Manifesto is the right thing to do? Maybe agile itself has by now served its purpose and is no longer necessary. Maybe it&#039;s time to define the next step beyond agile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the time has come to revisit the principles. Can we dig even deeper than the suggestions you make here? </p>
<p>For instance, consider &#8220;satisfy the customer.&#8221; Can we question the implied segregation between a &#8220;customer&#8221; and a &#8220;supplier?&#8221; Maybe what we really need is to re-think organizational structure. </p>
<p>Consider &#8220;changing requirements.&#8221; The Manifesto already dances around the edges of the question of whether anyone can &#8220;know&#8221; what is required in advance. Can we question this more deeply? There are other ideas out there that may serve the purpose better, depending on context. A couple of examples: Capabilities-Based Planning and Real Options. This begs the questions of managing an &#8220;IT portfolio&#8221;, budgeting IT activities on a cost-center basis, and running discrete &#8220;projects.&#8221; IMO there are many opportunities for improvement in this general area. The notion of &#8220;requirements&#8221; contains unstated assumptions. Let&#39;s identify and question those assumptions.</p>
<p>Consider &#8220;the team reflects&#8221; (etc.). There are practical tools to help teams and organizations with this practice that were not mentioned in the Manifesto, such as the Five Focusing Steps of the Theory of Constraints. Such tools offer concrete methods to implement this principle, taking it out of the realm of magic or blind luck.</p>
<p>When you say &#8220;this is indisuputable,&#8221; is it really? What if through further technological advances it becomes cost-effective to develop five or six possible solutions to a problem and then throw away all but one of them? Maximizing the amount of work not done would lead us to choose the solution before building the candidates. That&#39;s certainly realistic as of today&#8230;what what might tomorrow bring?</p>
<p>Since we&#39;re questioning things, why should we assume tweaking the Manifesto is the right thing to do? Maybe agile itself has by now served its purpose and is no longer necessary. Maybe it&#39;s time to define the next step beyond agile.</p>
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		<title>By: Abhishek</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15330</link>
		<dc:creator>Abhishek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15330</guid>
		<description>Simple Truth. Its amazing, how frequently the methodologies changes. Now, we need something which can adapt itself with future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simple Truth. Its amazing, how frequently the methodologies changes. Now, we need something which can adapt itself with future.</p>
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		<title>By: Manoj</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15329</link>
		<dc:creator>Manoj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 08:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15329</guid>
		<description>Naresh, unfortunately there is still a huge gap between the engineering and business folks when it comes to transforming to an agile mindset. The revision you are proposing makes manifesto principles slightly more alligned with the business...in particular the enablement and feedback issue you have highlighted. By definition, the &quot;principles&quot; themselves should be &quot;agile&quot; and &quot;evolving&quot;, but i expect business to also engage and drive this evolution and not just the engineering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naresh, unfortunately there is still a huge gap between the engineering and business folks when it comes to transforming to an agile mindset. The revision you are proposing makes manifesto principles slightly more alligned with the business&#8230;in particular the enablement and feedback issue you have highlighted. By definition, the &#8220;principles&#8221; themselves should be &#8220;agile&#8221; and &#8220;evolving&#8221;, but i expect business to also engage and drive this evolution and not just the engineering.</p>
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		<title>By: Saurabh Banerjee</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15328</link>
		<dc:creator>Saurabh Banerjee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 05:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15328</guid>
		<description>Great article Naresh! The publication of the Agile Manifesto is perhaps the single most important event in the world of software development. Rarely did we witness so much debate and discussion on this topic prior to the Agile Manifesto.  These days I tend to think that we are over emphasizing the role of  &quot;process&quot;. We need to shift our focus more on &quot;what we develop&quot; and how it adds value to the business. Everything else is secondary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article Naresh! The publication of the Agile Manifesto is perhaps the single most important event in the world of software development. Rarely did we witness so much debate and discussion on this topic prior to the Agile Manifesto.  These days I tend to think that we are over emphasizing the role of  &#8220;process&#8221;. We need to shift our focus more on &#8220;what we develop&#8221; and how it adds value to the business. Everything else is secondary.</p>
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		<title>By: HackerChick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/2010/03/19/im-not-attacking-the-agile-manifesto-principles-i-begging-for-improvement/comment-page-1/#comment-15327</link>
		<dc:creator>HackerChick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 19:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/?p=1216#comment-15327</guid>
		<description>Awesome, you&#039;ve done a great job capturing some of the recurring challenges with agile and I think that if we are to be agile then we need to continually inspect &amp; adapt to improve what agile means.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Where can I sign? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome, you&#39;ve done a great job capturing some of the recurring challenges with agile and I think that if we are to be agile then we need to continually inspect &#038; adapt to improve what agile means.</p>
<p>Where can I sign? <img src='http://blogs.agilefaqs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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